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Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. Caller: Hi. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. Caller: Oh yeah. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. I mean it wasn't your idea. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. So Michael follows with the question. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. So now what's going on. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. For all the men out there that don't realize it. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. So do they. John you're on the air. So let's let's go to the phones. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. Let us know your story and share your photos. We're not in the woods. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. There's no attraction. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Sam. Thank you. The supervisor that hired me in the game division in October of 1978 passed on to me this whole big folder of mountain lion information and sightings going back probably a couple decades. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. Do they travel. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. The Eastern mountain lion is extinct in the eastern United States and Canada, but in 2011, a . And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. Caller: Absolutely. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. So what those ranges. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. I'm Peter B yellow. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Women control our lives. for some excitement. Your support makes this news available to everyone. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Okay. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. 50 feet above the most. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. He said matter of fact I do. Right. I'm Peter Biello. There was a lot of DNA evidence. Thanks for a great thanks. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. nh.gov | privacy policy | accessibility policy Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. I just want to tell you a story that I read. Post your sightings and NH photos here! Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Let's look for other evidence. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. And those are not the same things. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. 1957. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Caller: I do. I found a second scat scent both to him. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. Really appreciate it. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. Absolutely. It's listed as population of least concern. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. Oh you saw him online. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. So they're scary. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. Thank you. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. And so. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. Can you look into this picture. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. And why would they what. Have you seen one. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. You need a permit to have that. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. They were able to do all that by genetics. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. Well they are the same. Rick your thoughts. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. There was no sign of it. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. No I saw a camel. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. Select image for larger view. Mountain lions live in the state. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Patrick Tate: Yes. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Early in the morning. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. Patrick Tate: Yes. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. They absolutely do. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further.